Curse

jkyarr · Mar 12, 2007, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Why oh why did ArenaNet decide to make no quests to unlock skills in Nightfall and Factions? Personally I think every skill ought to be unlockable & learnable via quest. It would add a megaton of content. There are already enough random useless NPCs spread throughout the game. If they can place collectors in the wild so randomly, why not skill quests? Then we might actually have more incentive to explore the map and earn that title!

I should also mention that I think skill quests should cost the player a skill point at the time the award is paid. That way we're not getting free unlocks. Anyone without a skill point to spend has to do more PvE and earn one before they can get the skill quest reward.

Paying a skill trainer 1 plat is boring and costly. Questing is the fun part of the PvE game.

Think about Luke's journey to Degobah to get some mad Jedi skills from Yoda... Why not recreate something along those lines in Guild Wars?

I should mention my bias in favor of this idea. I play a Mo/Me with over a million xp and 76+ unspent skill points due to the fact that I'm constantly broke just by maintaining equipment for the builds I need to do for myself and my heroes. Weapons, runes, and insignias are flippin expensive! There's no money left over for me to buy my own character her skills.

bamm bamm bamm · Mar 12, 2007, 10:33 PM // 22:33

I absolutely agree. The idea of spending money on skill acquisition seems to go against everything GW stood for when it came out. To me it feels like a wasted opportunity. A person should be prepared to spend a lot of time or skill if he wants to get all the skills. But time farming gold? Skill exploiting the shortcomings of mobs? I don't think so. I don't even know why it annoys me so much, but I'm going to keep rattling on about it until someone tells me to shut the hell up.

MithranArkanere · Mar 12, 2007, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Hero skills points.
I'll say it a thousand and one times.

Make the 'skill trainers' be the 'fast trainers'
Make the 'hero trainers' the 'slow trainers'.

You earn skill points by gaining exp.

You earn hero skill points by questing and by some other methods, like leveling up lightbringer and suspear.

Then,
You can pay the skill trainers 1 plat, 1 skill point, and you get one skill.
Or just give 1 (or more depending on the trainer) hero skill points to the hero trainer to gain skills for free.

Such system could be implemented in all camapings, replacing the skill quests in Prophecies.
That way, instead fixed skills, you could choose in the hero trainers.
So, if you make a quest that would give a skill you already have, you'll get a hero point instead, that you could use for any other skill you don't have already.

Poda · Mar 13, 2007, 01:23 AM // 01:23

I would prefer a happy medium between the two. Right in the middle of how proph did it and NF. I also hate having to buy everything. Just me thoughts.

jkyarr · Mar 13, 2007, 01:31 AM // 01:31

The whole problem with the existing system and what you purpose Mithran, is having 1 skill cost 1 platinum. There are too many other things that suck up every penny a player who doesn't farm can earn. By making every skill questable that isn't to say that we should eliminate the Skill trainers, simply offer an alternative means of earning the skill by doing a quest for it. That would add 300 or so more quests to the existing game, and if designed well, could make for better plot or sub-plot themes, and an overall enriched experience. There is room for a lot of creativity in how such quests are designed. Sunspear and Lightbringer points or ranks could certainly be incorporated, as you suggest.

It is a huge problem to take a well seasoned 20th level player into a new expansion and have to pay 1 platinum for every single skill that is a part of that storyline! It's boring, lame game design to use gold as a progress throttle for skill training!

gameshoes3003 · Mar 13, 2007, 02:47 AM // 02:47

/notsigned
I firmly believe that you should buy the other games to get the skills. Or else, why buy the other games?

jkyarr · Mar 13, 2007, 03:44 AM // 03:44

I absolutely agree, you must get the game to get the skills that go with it. Put quests for each expansion's skills in the expansion itself. Just give us an alternative to skill trainers and an endless platinum drain!

aeroclown · Mar 13, 2007, 03:50 AM // 03:50

What the heck are you 2 talking about? He said nothing about buying chapters, he said he would prefer it if the system were returned to the state it was in when chapter one was all by it self. The ability to QUEST for SKILLS not BUY SKILLS. He is right, it should be returned to the state it was in, in prophecies, you shouldn't be forced to buy every single skill. You should be able to obtain these by playing quest as it was.

Orinn · Mar 13, 2007, 05:32 AM // 05:32

/signed. The cost of 1 platinum per skill per character is pretty steep when you have multiple characters trying to go through the campaign. Give us back skill quests for at least the majority of skills. Adding in hero-trainer style NPC's to the old campaigns probably isn't going to happen, but they should be included and expanded upon for further campaigns.

mazey vorstagg · Mar 13, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

the issue is, think of how much time and money would need to be spent in order to add 300+ quests to the game, it's not gonna happen.

Possibly a cheaper way of doing this would be to make the tokens (imperial commendations or luxon totems) tradable in for skill vouchers with which you could buy a new skill.

Something like that

jkyarr · Mar 13, 2007, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Im a beliver that it could happen, and here's why. The infrastructure already exists in the game and there are already patches that are streamed to add and adjust content on at least a weekly basis. To do all 300+ at the same time would be tough, but why not just release them in smaller groups as they can be completed? The largest effort here is required of ArenaNet's story / quest writers. I've known a decent number of these type of pros in my own career and this is the type of task they could practically complete while on a lunch or potty break. Yes there's a large volume of quests to be added if they were to make every skill questable, but slow and easy wins the race. There's no requirement that all the quests be live in game by the end of next week. Just divy up the skill list and start writing little quest blurbs while you sit on the porcelain palace.

Not to imply that poorly conceived content is acceptable, but the guys at ArenaNet are the best in the world at what they do. This kind of basic quest should be as easy as pie for them. Sure it's lower priority work (Where is word of the next expansion fellas???), but it has a huge quality payoff as far as game enjoyment goes. If you're looking for an easy way to improve the gaming experience with minimal changes to the existing game dynamics, skill quests are it baby!

MithranArkanere · Mar 13, 2007, 05:59 PM // 17:59

XD one quest per skill? That is simply ridiculous.

Skills and quest must be separated. You make the quest, get the 'token' and spent the token in the skills you want.

The number of qusts would be limited, so you'll have to pay for the rest of the skills anyways.

tenshi_strife · Mar 13, 2007, 06:48 PM // 18:48

hum.... well maybe you should have quests for multiple skills not jsut one.... like one gets you glowing gaze, liqiud flame and another or something.... also skill vouchers are not a bad idea... and if you make them tradable there is a new econemy going in the game. BUT skill vouchers should use skill points when you use them too so that people dont unlock everthing useing vouchers.

jkyarr · Mar 13, 2007, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

XD one quest per skill? That is simply ridiculous.

Skills and quest must be separated. You make the quest, get the 'token' and spent the token in the skills you want.

The number of qusts would be limited, so you'll have to pay for the rest of the skills anyways.

Yes even that would be better than having to pay 1 plat for every single skill in every campaign that my character was not originally from!

But I see no good reason that every non-elite couldn't be questable. We can certainly keep skill trainers too! OPTIONS are what I like... sometimes i'm down on cash, so rather than go gold farming I'd like to be able to quest for the skills I need. OPTIONS OPTIONS OPTIONS!

jkyarr · Mar 13, 2007, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Any item that becomes another form of currency is very bad news for game balancing and the overall gaming experience. Vouchers = very bad

To recap:

1. Make every non-elite skill questable... (maybe 1 quest to 1 skill, maybe 1 to many)

2. Require the player to have a skill point in order to get the quest reward (no free unlocks)

3. Keep skill trainers in town for those who like to pay for their skills.

4. I am available for hire if there's a shortage of resources that could help write quests :-P LOL

jkyarr · Sep 04, 2007, 07:04 PM // 19:04

I'm glad that GW:EN reintroduced quests that awarded skills... It was long overdue! But I find myself desiring more. Why shouldn't there be a quest for every non-elite skill? It makes the continuity of the game much more enjoyable. Skill Trainers in PvE are akin to PvP Skill Unlock Packs. Just raise the 500 plat in-game instead of paying real world dollars in the online store and then visit the skill trainers from each campaign... HOW LAME! (and expensive) I'm still an advocate of adding more quests for skills. Retrofit Nightfall and Factions with them too!

genofreek · Sep 04, 2007, 09:43 PM // 21:43

I'd /sign for more quests that reward the player with skills in Elona and Cantha. Having to buy them all makes for QUITE the goldsink. I realize the game needs more goldsinks as is, but when skills cost 1 plat each, it just encourages (or in the case of those who're bad with money, forces) players to use the less-than-stellar stuff their character picks up at the very beginning of the campaign.

Winterclaw · Sep 05, 2007, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Why oh why did ArenaNet decide to make no quests to unlock skills in Nightfall and Factions?

Because in Proph only half the skills were questable and what happened is too many people in ANet's mind used mostly those skills. So instead of making all skills questable, they gave you a handful in the beginning of each game and left it at that.

dargon · Sep 05, 2007, 01:28 AM // 01:28

damn, thread necromancy at it's finest, it was killed and then resurrected nearly 6 months later by jkyarr

Aethon · Sep 05, 2007, 01:37 AM // 01:37

I dunno about making them all questable, but I'd love an alternative to paying 1k each. My paragon has 99 skill points, according to the menu, but I don't have anywhere near the cash to actually use them. I believe there was another thread somewhere, sometime that argued in favor of trading in multiple skill points instead of the 1k, a solution which would suit me just fine.